How do you file a claim against a recruiter?

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Permalink Reply by Donna on July 1, 2008 at 10:49pm

My son is a recruiter, & he does not encourage any one to lie, even by omission. He says that if this does happen, the recruiter will get in trouble for it. I would write to the place the McNavy mom told you about. If she did not already do so, I would let the command at GL know about the recruiter & how he encouraged her to lie by omission. Keep me posted please

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Permalink Reply by Rose R on July 2, 2008 at 8:46am

There is also a phone number I was given at 800-522-3451 Mon thru Fri 8am to 4pm.
The letter should be addressed to the Inspector General.This is additional info on the address McNavy gave.

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Permalink Reply by Susan J on July 2, 2008 at 9:52pm

It is a sad thing when this happens. Unfortunately, it becomes a HE SAID, SHE SAID. The worst that will happen to the recruiter is be transferred to a different duty station. Unless that same recruiter has NUMEROUS complaints, there is little that will be done. They have a saying...the recruits hear only what they want, there for, they just didnt listen closely enough to understand this needed to be disclosed at MEPS. EXAMPLE:
Recrutier says: If you have any medical problems in your history, there are several that can prevent you from enlisting in the navy. There is a MOMENT of TRUTH time at boot camp, that if you have something in your past, you need to say it then. If you know you had a medical problem and didnt disclose it at MEPS, you may not be allowed to stay at boot camp after this Moment of Truth"
DEPer hears: "If you have a history of medical problems and you tell them at MEPS..YOU CANT JOIN ever".

I have heard this time and time again, not saying your daughter did this...but when pressed at boot camp by the Officers there...this is what they end up telling them they heard. When ASKED IF they actually READ their contract WORD FOR WORD, most all say , "Well, NO!"

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Permalink Reply by Rose R on July 3, 2008 at 1:58pm

Like most contracts these days, one needs to be a lawyer to understand any twist and turn. Asking kids 17 to 20 something to understand that is plain ridiculous. It is such a waste of taxpayer money, not to mention destructive to the hopes and dreams of these young people, who go in hoping to serve their country. I think the recruiters should be penalized when a recruitment they set up does not work out. We would see how fast this nonsense would stop.
My brother in law served in the Navy during the Nam era, he signed up for one thing, and wound up a gunner's mate. This is nothing new, and there are stats that show the Navy has the worst record with bad enlistments out of the armed forces. Perhaps a letter to the Secretary of the Navy is in order?

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Permalink Reply by Janell on July 3, 2008 at 11:44pm

Susan, while I agree with what you said, I know for a fact that this recruiter knew she had not been off of her meds for a full year yet because I told him so (and she did, too, on a different occasion). So if he knew she had to be off of them for a full year, why didn't he prevent her from enlisting until the year was up? She didn't hold a gun to his head. All he would have had to tell her was that she had to wait a few more months. But he said he knew a way to get her in, but he didn't get any kind of a waiver. Her mistake was trusting him when he told her to not volunteer the information.

He's the one who is supposed to know his job--we shouldn't have to second-guess him.

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Permalink Reply by Janell on July 4, 2008 at 6:27pm

The one year mark for that particular med would have been in Sept. or Oct. of this year. On a different med (that he knew about), it wouldn't have been until Feb. of next year. Before all this, I knew the Air Force said that kids needed to be off certain meds for a full year, but I didn't know that it was the same for all branches of the military (that's why I asked the recruiter about it).

The military is full of contradictions--a kid needs to be off ADHD meds for a year before trying to enlist, but my husband (who's retired Air Force) was able to be on them when he was a tech school instructor (he couldn't use them when he worked on the flightline). An active duty person can stay in after having knee surgery, but a kid who has had knee surgery has a difficult time getting in. A person can stay in after receiving a DUI, but a kid with one on his record has difficulty even getting a recruiter to talk to him/her. Those are just a few examples.

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Permalink Reply by Susan J on July 4, 2008 at 7:49pm

You all might find this information interesting.....

Right before taking the active duty oath, you'll meet with a MEPS Interviewer and complete MEPCOM Form 601-23-5-R-E. The interviewer will go over the form with you. The primary purpose of this session is to give you one final chance to "come clean" on any false information that may be included on your enlistment documents, or to provide information about any additional medical, drug, or criminal problems that occurred while you were in the DEP.

Some of the questions asked on this form are:

Have you used or sold drugs during your DEP enlistment?
Did you have trouble of any kind because of marijuana or alcohol during your DEP enlistment, or at any other time?
Have you told the Service Counselor EVERYTHING about illegal use or sale of drugs?
Have you told your Service Counselor everything about any problems you've had with law enforcement agencies?
Has anyone promised you anything that is not identified on your enlistment documents or annexes?
Did you have any physical problems during your DEP period that you did not disclose to the MEPS doctor?
Is there anything else the doctor does not know about, but should know, that could prevent you from completing basic training, such as major surgeries, allergies, reactions to bee stings, heart murmurs, asthma, migraine headaches, knee problems, back problems, psychiatric care and counseling, or attempted suicide?
Did anyone tell you to hide any information or lie about traffic tickets, juvenile or adult convictions, police records (sealed or stricken)?
After completing the form, and going over each answer with the MEPS interviewer, you will be briefed on the contents of Article 83, Article 85, and Article 86 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Article 83 covers fraudulent enlistments. Articles 85 and 86 are concerned with Desertion and Absent without Leave (AWOL). All three articles are applicable once you take the active duty oath.
(by signing this contract and NOT telling the truth..you are letting the recruiter OFF THE HOOK so to speak, if he/she told you to lie about any of the above)

Let's get straight to the point. Knowingly giving false information or withholding required information on any recruiting form is a criminal offense (When the information would have made an individual ineligible to enlist, or would have required a waiver to enlist). It's not a misdemenor, it's not the same as getting a speeding ticket. It's a felony offense, punishable by a $10,000 fine and three years in prison. If you lie to get into the military, you are committing a felony. It's that simple. If you get away with it long enough to actually enlist, and are caught later, it's also a "military offense." You can be prosecuted for a violation of Article 83 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), which states:

"Any person who--

(1) procures his own enlistment or appointment in the armed forces by knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment as to his qualifications for that enlistment or appointment and receives pay or allowances thereunder; or

(2) procures his own separation from the armed forces by knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment as to his eligibility for that separation; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct."

A recruiter who encourages you to lie has violated his/her own service regulations and can be prosecuted for violation of a regulation under Article 92 of the UCMJ. Additionally, if the recruiter knows you are not qualified for military service, under the regulations, and processes your enlistment anyway, that recruiter can be charged with a violation of Article 84 of the UCMJ, which states:
"Any person subject to this chapter who effects an enlistment or appointment in or a separation from the armed forces of any person who is known to him to be ineligible for that enlistment, appointment, or separation because it is prohibited by law, regulation, or order shall be punished as a court-martial may direct."

The Manual for Courts-Martial (MCM) lists the maximum punishment for this article as: dishonorable discharge, reduction to the lowest enlisted rank, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement at hard labor for 5 years.

However, when you get caught in your lies, if you think that dishonest recruiter (the one who told you to lie) is going to stand up and say, "Yes, I told him to lie, it's all my fault," then you'd better get your head examined. He/she is going to say, "Nope. He/she didn't tell me a thing about it!" You are the one who is going to suffer the consequences of your choice to commit a felony.

Let me say this again: A recruiter who encourages you to commit a felony offense in order to enlist in the military is not your friend. He/she could care less whether or not you are later discharged, tried by court-martial, given nonjudicial punishment, or lose your guaranteed job.


They'll Find Out
I've some recruiters say, "The recruiter's job is to get you in the military, and the Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS)'s job is to disqualify you. They'll give you a 'scare speech' at MEPs, but don't pay any attention to it. As long as you don't tell them, there's no way they can find out."

ABSOLUTELY FALSE! MEPS' job is the same as the recruiter's job. It's to ensure that only qualified candidates enlist. The criminal background check and security clearance investigations can and do find sealed records. If anyone tells you otherwise, they are lying to you. If you get sick while in the military, and the medical professionals suspect it is a preexisting condition, the military will make every effort to track down previous civilian medical records. Again, if someone tells you that the military never checks into these matters, then they are not telling you the truth. If you lie about your previous drug use (even if there is no criminal record), and your military job/assignment (either now or a future assignment) requires a Top Secret clearance, the military CAN find out about it (see Security Clearance Secrets).

There is no RIGHT to serve in the armed forces of the United States. The military services have the absolute right to determine who is qualified and who is not qualified to serve. Individual recruiters are not authorized or qualified to make these determinations. Each of the service's have a waiver process whereby senior recruiting and medical officials can waive certain disqualifying medical or moral (legal) factors, depending upon the current needs of the service and the other qualifications of the applicant.

I should mention at this point that there is absolutely nothing wrong with a recruiter giving you instructions on how to answer questions at MEPs, as long as he/she is not encouraging you to be dishonest. MEPs can sometimes be very fussy when it comes to determining qualifications. If, for example, you say to your recruiter "I might have had asthma as a kid, but no doctor ever diagnosed it as asthma," then the recruiter is perfectly correct to instruct you that the correct answer to the question "Have you ever been diagnosed with asthma?" is "no." One should read the questions carefully, and answer them truthfully, but it's never a good idea to offer more information than what is actually asked.

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Permalink Reply by Rose R on July 5, 2008 at 1:13pm

You should also mention that you live with a recruiter. I s there a link to back up these statements Susan?

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Permalink Reply by Achseh on July 5, 2008 at 11:07pm

She's absolutely correct and I don't live with a recruiter, not that that matters.

Point is, when the decision is made to lie and the recruit swears they weren't coerced to lie and swears that they have made true statements when they haven't, that falls squarely on the recruit's shoulders.

I know these are kids, I know they sometimes don't think clearly when placed in such a position but the fact is it's a choice they have made to be dishonest and the consequences are on their shoulders.

It's heartbreaking, to be sure.

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Permalink Reply by Susan J on July 6, 2008 at 4:59pm

I dont LIVE with a recruiter, we are best friends..AND I have other recrutiers as friends as well. One of which has been banned from MEPS for interferring when they(MEPS) were trying to change his recruits rate! He has even been Masted for it! But read my post below about MY OLDEST SON and his disaster with the MARINES.

SO..you ask where I get some of my information...BEEN THERE DONE THAT ALREADY! Yes, my son wants to go back...this time the RIGHT WAY! Thank God for the RE-3 rating code!

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Permalink Reply by Ellen on July 5, 2008 at 2:18pm

Susan -
Thanks for sharing this information. It backs up a lot of what I learned by scouring the internet for myself when my son was recommended for separation and sent to Ship 17. I waded through tons of military personnel handbooks and rules, etc. that I found online.

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Permalink Reply by Ruth on July 5, 2008 at 9:59pm

Ellen -
could you provide some of the sites and info that you found to help your son...my son was diagnosed at GL after almost 5 weeks of BC with ADHD & I am at a loss right now on how to help him...thank you for any assistance you can provide...Ruth

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