Trying to decide...

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Permalink Reply by Angie on April 9, 2012 at 5:16pm

Private???  I think you mean Seaman..which is the lowest in the USN.

 

Even new Officers are treated with little respect as they still need to learn the ropes of what to do and what not to do.  Do you realy think that everyone will respect a new officer that just got out of college and just walked onto the ship?  The answer is no...they salute the unifrom not the person.   What that means is that most new Officers "Think" they know everything...much like that new Seaman that just finished bootcamp.  Neither have a lick of real knowledge about what realy goes on in the USN, both have to earn the respect of others...both get trained by the Chief.

 

Difference is Officers get paid more...but they normally have lots of debt from the colleges they went to.  Enlisted have little to no debt as they are still young and most haven't gone to college.

 

Both Officer and Enlisted move up 3 paygrades for free...meaning they just do their time at the paygrade before and than they move up to the next..once they try to get to that 4th paygrade...than they both can have issues moving up.  NO one can say what is going to happen in the next few years.  Right now the USN is overmanned!  Both Officers and Enlisted are being seperated for almost anything.  Either can be kicked out also for different reasons. 

 

What does your son want to do????  Does he want to be Enlisted or Officer?  NOT what YOU want him to do...what does he say?

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Permalink Reply by shermb on April 9, 2012 at 5:19pm

Cynthia,

My son had his PIR on good Friday. He turned 29 while in boot camp and had a college degree. Because he had finished college he went in as an E3. Personally, I'm glad he was older, had a degree, and some life experience behind him. I think it would have been more difficult for him to have gone in at 18 and tried to work on his degree while on active duty. These are just my thoughts on it. Everyones situation is different. I will tell you that he owes quite a bit yet in school loans so that is something to consider, although the Navy is paying off some of it. As far as not trusting the recruiters, just make sure you get everything in writing.

 

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Permalink Reply by Lady Hamilton on April 10, 2012 at 6:08am

Cynthia,

Yes, everyone's situation is different. My daughter went in at 17, is now 25 and an E-6. She is ¾ of the way thru her bachelor's degree, all at the Navy's expense. No debt and is buying a condo. Compared to most of her High School classmates who went to college, she's doing great.

Let's put that into $ and ¢:

29 years old, college degree, in debt, earning $1757.40 a month basic pay, no housing allowance, living in barracks.

vs

25 years old, some college, no debt, earning $3143.10 a month basic pay, $1239 a month housing allowance, living in a condo.

Regarding life experiences, my daughter wears a Presidential Service Badge. YMMV ;)

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Permalink Reply by shermb on April 13, 2012 at 9:24am

Lady Hamilton, from your response I feel you are emplying by son is a loser. I don't see him that way. I was proud  the day he graduated from college, I'm proud of the fact that for the last four years he has been helping physically and mentally challenged adults have as independent lives as possible, and I was proud the day of his PIR. I have no problems with people entering the Navy out of high school. I was just trying to explain how it worked out for my son and the pros and cons.

I have a great deal of respect for people who go into the service no matter what age they are.

I would also like to say thank you for your daughters service. She has certainly been very successful! You have a right to be very proud of her.

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Permalink Reply by BunkerQB on April 21, 2012 at 7:41pm

I am a real believer in going to college right out of high school. There is nothing like experiencing the college scene as an eighteen year old. I loved it. My husband loved it. Our older son loved it. Our younger more or less loved it. You really can't put a dollar tag on it. Of course, much depends on the financial situation of each family because sending a child to college is expensive and more expensive today than 5, 10 years ago. Circumstances change. 

As far as dollars and cents go, I know several young whipper snapper who dropped out of college and they make more money than any of our kids (or the total sum of any number of our kids) will ever make. I have also encounter a number of "stars" from high school who have flamed out.

It's difficult to assess in high school what would be the better path. The military track has worked out great for Lady Hamilton's daughter - that is a wonderful indication that the Navy could be a fantastic solution for the right individual. I also know of individuals who joined the Navy right out of high school and hate it. They would have been better off, living at home, going to a community college for awhile - they really were not ready to be part of a large organization - they needed more time to meander along at a different pace.

We do have many Navy recruits who joined because after 5-10 years of college and/or work have decided that a career in the military has lots of advantages. Often joining at an older age makes the recruit appreciate the opportunity more. I am in support of any individual who sincerely wants to serve our country at any age.

My son (an nuke officer for 5 years) is very, very smart (with many academic and athletic awards in high school, college and in the Navy). He freely admits that he has encountered a number of enlisted nukes who are innately more intelligent that he is but for whatever reason simply didn't go to college. He suggested to them to go back to school, get their degrees, become officers w/o too much success - it's too difficult for some to make it work within the enlisted career path (particularly for those in the sub service). Some like the idea of going to school to learn more but have no desire to be officers. Clearly, potential earning level for an enlisted person will never be higher than the level for an officer.

shermb, I would suggest that your son as soon as he can (if he is interested), because he has a college degree, apply for the Officer Candidate School program. Good luck to him.

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Permalink Reply by Lady Hamilton on April 23, 2012 at 12:46am

Even in my daughter's case, her one big regret is missing out on the college experience. Making the Navy a career was never Plan A. She joined because she didn't want the financial burden that would have come with attending her first choice school. As it turned out, the school was a long time affiliate of the Navy College Program and taking a few classes during her 4 year enlistment would have guaranteed admission and the GI bill would have covered most of her tuition. She could start school at 21 (when she was 21 she still looked like 18) and already have some of the basic classes out of the way. That plan fell apart because (1) she really liked Navy life and (2) she was offered the opportunity of serving at Camp David if she re-enlisted. A traditional college education took a back seat to living the Navy adventure.

Things happen. Plans change. The goal now is to stay in the service (something that is getting harder to do everyday), complete college at her first choice school (minus the campus experience) and advance to CWO/LDO (earning her commission based on merit rather than thru OCS and holding a bachelor's degree). Its quirky, but it is a plan.

Is it better to go to college first and join as an officer or just enlist now and get education while on active duty? I don't think there is a 'better'. To make either work he has to really love the idea of military life. And that's hard to do until he is actually in uniform.

Emma

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Permalink Reply by BunkerQB on April 23, 2012 at 1:20am

She may decide after getting her degree to apply to the OCS program. On a sub, only commissioned officers can be XOs or COs. Regardless, it's no easy task to become a CWO - the process is more rigorous than ever. The Navy is turning down smart college grads everyday because their educational training is NOT what the Navy needs.

Members ask questions forgetting that it's not what their sons/daughters want from the Navy that matters but whether their sons/daughters have any capabilities that the Navy needs.

Does this sound harsh? Yes, very. But it is the fact of life trying to make being a part of the Navy a career path. The days of oh, you can't think of anything to do, go join the Navy and see the world are long, long gone.

For those who are curious, here is some info on CWOs & LDOs

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/navypromotions/a/navwarrant.htm

If a family can swing the college expense, I would recommend sending the kid to college for a year or two, provided they have fun but work hard as well (maintained a certain grade point , no DUIs, no drug scene, don't get pregnant, etc. etc). At the two year mark, I would reevaluated whether continuing the college path - w or w/o NROTC (or other program) - or continue w college, complete the degree than decide if OCS or enlisted is the choice (this as I said in my last comment depends on what the degree is in).

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Permalink Reply by BunkerQB on April 23, 2012 at 1:31am

On a funny note, there were two prior enlisted candidates in my son's OCS class that really really impressive (I met them both). One was a SEAL (no other words necessary) and the other a Mexican woman in her late 20s, husband an enlisted sailor, a mother w 2 kids. She was not that tall but well-muscled. She was one tough cookie. My son said she had no problem carrying a 230 lb sailor on her back at a drop of a hat. There was one enlisted guy who had a real hard time, academically and emotionally (going thru marital difficulties). But he made it thru w the help of the other candidates.

Whatever path the individual decides - it's never forever - you can change. Opportunities will come up. My sailor was a college grad, who was commissioned. My younger son attended West Point for two years - he too would have been commissioned had he stayed. They both feel that officers in general would be better if they all served as enlisted personnel for at least two years prior to being commissioned.

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Permalink Reply by Anti M on April 9, 2012 at 7:18pm

I went into the Navy as enlisted, because I wanted to learn a rate and work with my hands.  I was not interested in being an officer, as they have a more supervisory role.  Respect is earned, not given.  As Angie said, junior officers are being saluted because they have to be.  

Nothing wrong with being enlisted, yes, you get to do some crap work such as cleaning and boring watches, but so what?  That someone with a brother in the Navy?  Haven't served, have they?  Makes a huge difference in how a person feels about being officer or enlisted.  Civilian perception tends to think "Officer and a Gentleman" and all that fairytale crappola.  

I knew plenty of enlisted sailors who had degrees.  They simply did not find being an officer appealing, money or not.  I had a couple years of college and chose enlisted.  Again, as Angie said, what does your son want to do?

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Permalink Reply by CaptainFatso on April 10, 2012 at 1:57pm

All that and I've always thought that the enlisted guys enjoy MUCH better liberty.

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Permalink Reply by Jess' Proud Mom on April 9, 2012 at 7:30pm

Cynthia,

My son went in on Jan. 9, 2012. He went in without a college degree and without a military background. He loves what he is doing and gets to go to college on the Navy's dime. As a single mom, I applaud his decision. I wouldn't have him do it any other way! :) Good luck. 

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Permalink Reply by judy r on April 10, 2012 at 8:24am

Ok now I will add to what all these ladies have said neither of mine went to college before joining both went in after graduation my oldest retired after 21 1/2 yrs in Spec warfare he was a SWCC he was able to get his associate degree.  My youngest went in right out of HS has spent 24yrs doing what he loves he now has his bachlors degree and moved up the ranks and is a chief warrant officer.  The Navy is what your son will make of it.  He does his best and works hard anything can happen for him. Respect is earned and it doesnt stop with the just the Navy that is in civilian life too. He earns it he will get it.

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